Joe Dobias
photo: courtesy of the restaurant
His battles with bloggers may have branded him New York’s new bad boy chef, but Joe Dobias, chef and owner of East Village eatery Joe Doe, just wants people to enjoy good food, even if they think he has an attitude. Fans of the Food Network’s Chopped will see if his “aggressive American” fare comes on just as strong as his personality when he steps up to the block on October 27. In the meantime, he talked openly with the Buzz about his restaurant, the trouble with food trends, the state of dining in New York and how most cooking shows don't teach you to cook.
Zagat Buzz: What’s Joe Doe’s role in today’s dining scene?
Joe Dobias: It’s a consistent approach to cooking that doesn’t need to be precious. That’s why we call the whole style “aggressive American.” It’s a little bit in your face, kinda unapologetic, and really, really honestly American.
ZB: Sounds a lot like the chef...
JD: I cook for diners, not eaters, and I do everything to accommodate the whims of people at this point. Yet I don’t think that some people have approached me with that same respect just because I have a big mouth and sometimes I stick my foot in it.
ZB: What’s the difference between an eater and a diner?
JD: Diners are leaders and the leaders have come in despite the fact that I have an attitude. They understand that I’m doing an honest person’s cooking. It’s supposed to be a convivial process where we are all getting together and we are all doing something that we enjoy, both on my side and on the diner’s side. An eater is someone who is used to following the tail of the person in front of them, the kind of people who follow overall dining trends that are pushed on them. Eaters don’t necessarily care to understand what the purpose of the restaurant is, they are there for the scene or that this is the hot thing. I opened a restaurant for diners, not for eaters – for the shepherds, not for the sheep – and if that pisses people off, too bad really. There are plenty of restaurants out there, so go somewhere else, it’s ok with me. Eaters are a big part of what’s wrong with the dining scene in New York.
ZB: If the NY dining scene is broken, how should it be fixed?
JD: It needs to be an honest approach again as opposed to just the money-making approach. Empire building is very popular right now and I am not against someone making their money but there’s a point where restaurants are losing identity, even if they are owned by celebrity chefs. There seems to be a slowing down of the whole idea that once you have one restaurant you need to have five in order to be successful. But you can still make money just off of one place. I have a very small place and at one point when we actually get the consistent business, it will be very easy for me to make money because I didn’t spend a lot of money to open it. But look at DBGB down the block from me... If you need to make $4 million a year, and you’re ok with saying that to people, then people need to be ok with the fact that they are just having money made on them. In fact, that kind of restaurant has nothing to do with giving you the best possible product at the fairest price. It has to do with profit and loss margins, it has to do with fulfilling salaries of management and an exorbitant amount of line cooks. I never opened a restaurant thinking I’m going to make millions of dollars, I never would try to do that. That system is not really devoted to customers, it is devoted to their wallets.
ZB: Who do you look up to in the culinary world?
JD: That’s a tough question. I don’t really have a lot of people that I look up to, to be honest with you, because I haven’t really worked with a lot of people in that respect. But at Savoy I worked with Matt Weingarten (Inside Park at St. Bart’s). I model a lot of my cooking after what he does because it’s an honest approach to cooking. It would taste good and he didn’t do it with a lot of pretense.
ZB: Did you enjoy the Chopped experience?
JD: I did, because a lot of it is about who is not afraid to put themselves out there. And that shows the most confidence in what you are doing in a restaurant kitchen too. I’m not afraid of anybody’s kitchen.
ZB: Some say that the cooking-competition shows focus too much on the personalities as opposed to cooking or the actual technique. Do you agree or disagree?
JD: I agree and I disagree. Just to get on a show like that has zero to do with your cooking capacity. They are casting personalities, but I think at the same time they have brought in plenty of talented people. Top Chef is now attracting heavier talent, very talented people who have been, or could be, swallowed up by the big restaurants. A lot of those guys and girls don’t want to just be the chef de cuisine in someone else’s kitchen anymore. Even if they are making $100,000 in a Mario Batali restaurant, they are not going to be able to touch any of the food and not going to be able to influence the concept. It’s already laid out, they get a spreadsheet every week and a conference call from Vegas. To a lot of people today that is not appealing. They want to see themselves in the spotlight right away and I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. The good thing about these cooking competitions are that they really expose people who can’t cook! Even though they are set up to give you twists and turns, if you can really cook you will be able to adapt to whatever is thrown your way, and I think that shows a lot more prowess than someone who can regurgitate something they have learned over a 13-year apprenticeship. I mean, people don’t recognize the difference. Look at that Star Chefs event. I mean, how can every person who is a “rising star” in the culinary world right now be the chef de cuisine for someone else? And how is that fair for someone to judge only multimillion dollar restaurants as being fitting of a “rising star”? I think it’s all a bunch of horseshit, because when it comes down to it, the only people who are doing really honest stuff are the people who are still there on the ground doing it.
ZB: If you had your own show, what would the format be like?
JD: I would definitely incorporate some stand-up cooking. The Food Network is like the anti–Martha Stewart Network now. Cooking on a budget and $10 a day – they are all stupid ideas because they are about how to do things the easiest way possible and pass it off as your own. No one is showing people how to actually cook! People don’t know how to chop an onion for example. My cooking show would have that with a little bit of Alton Brown thrown in, where it’s educational. I’ll tell people why bread rises, for example.
ZB: What can diners expect from you this season at Joe Doe?
JD: I’ll tell you what not to expect – mac 'n' cheese or a fried chicken dinner. Why does everyone need to be the same? I’ve had enough of it already, these trends where everything spirals out of control because people are more interested in being written about as opposed to just doing what they are doing. I don’t think that’s what really drives business. What does drive business is continuing to do the same kind of cooking every day and getting better at it and more effective at giving the customer what they want. But to answer your question, I like this time of year – I’ll be working with beans and offal, and doing a lot of braising.
ZB: What’s next for you?
JD: We’ve been throwing around the idea of doing a sandwich shop where we would bring back a real Jewish-style bagel. We are a city full of Jews but there’s not that many good bagel places left. I came up with the name “Joe Dough” for it.
– Kathleen Squires