Zagat Survey Discussions

There has been much discussion lately within the food blogging world about picky eaters. People are faking allergies and many diners are pretty much deconstructing dishes with all their substitutions. According to Pete Wells’s article about last week’s 20-course, $1,500-a head Keller-Achatz dinner at Per Se, almost half of the tables requested substitutions, cried food allergies and noted the food they simply did not like. No two palates are alike, and it is not expected for people to like every edible morsel out there, but are diners going too far? Do you think people are claiming allergies because they fear chefs will scorn their substitutions? Is it ok for diners to point out their aversions to certain ingredients? And back to the Per Se dinner, if you are paying $1,500 for your meal, shouldn’t you be able to note your allergies/dislikes? It’s one thing to ask to hold the mayo at your local deli, but is it OK to request the same at a fine-dining establishment? What do you think?

---

Vote in a Featured Survey and get a free book!

It's one thing to have food allergies, and it's quite another just to be picky. Those persons with allergies should be reasonably accommodated with substituted products, and I have found that restaurants are more than happy to do so. 

Even picky eaters should have their substitutions, if practicable.  However, for special events such as the Keller-Achatz dinner at Per Se, the menu should be promoted in advance, and it should be advertised that there will be no substitutions, or at least which alternative selections would be available for persons with allergies. I'm sure they would have no problem filling the restaurant with enough people willing to pay the price of admission.

Pardon the average gentile sensabilities.... But did you ever wonder if half (or better) of all the folks crying food alergies are just full of, well, themselves? It's popular to be "special", but the stats don't support the crowds. If you have such sensativities, why is it always up to everyone else to make accomodations? Try phoning ahead and expressing your needs... Well, that pretty well defeats the whole "I'm special" thing, and IMHO ferets out the bulk of the Alergy Faker Dogs.

DanielH564993 wrote:
Pardon the average gentile sensabilities.... But did you ever wonder if half (or better) of all the folks crying food alergies are just full of, well, themselves? It's popular to be "special", but the stats don't support the crowds. If you have such sensativities, why is it always up to everyone else to make accomodations? Try phoning ahead and expressing your needs... Well, that pretty well defeats the whole "I'm special" thing, and IMHO ferets out the bulk of the Alergy Faker Dogs.

Huh? 

This is not something I ever mention here on the boards...but I guess now is the time. I have several food allergies and intolerances. I really ask no one outside of the restaurant kitchen to make accommodations for me, so who exactly is the "everyone" that you are referring to? I am often a stranger to the person taking my order...does that mean they should assume I am a poseur? If they can't accommodate me, then I order something else. Phone ahead? And do what? Ask them to read the entire menu to me? How will I know what I feel like eating at that later date. Should I not be able to take advantage of the specials being offered when I am there? Now who is the selfish one. Am I inconveniencing my dinner companions? If that's how they felt then they wouldn't be my dinner companions again. 

I have had some amazing meals all over the world. The fact that my body doesn't react well to certain substances doesn't mean that I don't have a refined palate. In the instance that a restaurant would ignore my requests, I always have an EpiPen with me. That and the phone number of a really good lawyer.
 

---

À votre santé

Accomadating food allergies as well as peoples preferences is what restaurants that cater to their customer should do. As a restaurant manager for 25 years I will admit however that it is rarely done to a level of greatness by even some of the most accomplished chef's.
When dining at the worlds great restaurants however changing the menu that the chef has prepared for any reason, is truly just punishing and shorting yourself of the greatness, finese and wonderful meal you could have had but didn't. Needs and preferences are important however they ideally should not be changing ingredients that professional artists-chefs have spend years in creating and mastering. 

---

Gourmand

The menu at one restaurant where I dined read, "Substitutions are possible @ $5 apiece"...  It seems reasonable to impose a surcharge for the work of changing / deconstructing / replacing...  Of course at special tribute high-$$$ dinners, such would not be appropriate...  I wonder if the dinner guests / celebrities get to change out ingredients at the Academy Award dinners.....or at The White House state dinners...  Something tells me, 'no'...

---

Surf & turf's up...!!

I find this idea of people "faking" food allergies shocking. Having a daughter with a severe and deadly food allergy is a challenge and extremely stressful. Eating out has really become a hardship but on the rare occasion that we do, every restaurant has been wonderful.  The management staff makes sure of her safety and if there is any doubt, we are advised. I find it hard to believe that a person would fake such a thing when so many people can have severe and even deadly reactions to a food allergy,just to suit there picky palate.

---

FOOD,GLORIOUS FOOD

La Linda wrote:
[i] In the instance that a restaurant would ignore my requests, I always have an EpiPen with me. That and the phone number of a really good lawyer. [i]

Linda, It seems that your motto is; "Everything bad that happens to me is the fault of someone else with money". Why would you assume that the restaurant would ignore your request? Well maybe not in your case.

---

It's not done until there are grill marks

I see people faking food allergies numerous times a week. And I see many true food allergies as well. The fakers often have allergies to stronger flavors: pepper, garlic, etc. Yes, garlic is a common allergen, I know. But we have servers return and describe how garlic is used in the dish, and suddenly the allergy is gone. We get that a lot with supposed fish allergies, too. We explain that a certain butter has Worcestershire sauce which has anchovies. "Oh, I can have that," we hear. During the height of Atkin's everyone had Celiac's disease, or so they said so we wouldn't slip a carb into their day. It really is common to see so-called allergies disappear when describing a dish. Believe me, we are hyper-cautious. I am certified in dealing with food allergies and my son has anaphylactic allergies to tree nuts and peanuts. He carries epipens, too, although I can't possibly imagine actually sueing someone for accidentally missing a nut in his food.

Second part of rant: we are the ones responsible for this new world where half of every kindergarten class is deathly allergic to something or other. It has been our mandate over the past twenty years to sterilize everything. Our kids' immune systems didn't stand a chance. At work I'm required to sanitize everything with iodine before and after I use it. I have to wear vinyl gloves (latex gloves not allowed anymore - might cause a reaction in our customers) to touch all food not to be cooked. Americans can barely travel anymore without getting sick. And it's not going to get any better. HACCP is not doing us any favors. We'd be better off to improve handling practices at the source - beef processors, chicken plants, farms, etc - than to feel the need to use Clorox wipes on everything from here to Sunday.

As someone with a highly rare food allergies that causes me to break out in hives on my body at the extreme or blisters in my mouth in the mild form, I am very sensitive to this subject. My allergy is to mustard and tumeric, two things that most servers do not readily know is in a particular dish off the tops of their heads. I do end up travelling with benadryl just in case.

As a result, being an intelligent patron and empathetic to chefs, I only order items that I know have 95% chance of not containing the ingredients. In that vein, I avoid French and Indian cuisine except for certain dishes where I know both spices are not used as an emulsifier or crusting agent. I also alert the server to my allergies and ask for a recommendation of a secondary "safe choice" in the event that an ingredient substitution cannot be made. Most people I know with food allergies do the same practice.

To hear that people are faking allergies is disturbing as it begs the question: are people admitting they are faking allergies or are restaurant just assuming that allergies are being faked due to teh amount of requests? If it is the former, shame on people for not choosing an alternate dish or cuisine that is more agreeable to their palate. If it is the latter, well the restaurant should be ashamed for thinking such things if there is no proof. Unless the staff administers allergen tests or the diners accept the suspected allergen as an ingredient with explanation, the staff has a responisbility to deliver a plesureable dining experience if they want to stay in business.

Blame for the explosion in food allergies could be a result of the expanded use of hormones in food products, industrial compound waste in the water table, poor sanitary practices, and other such cost saving and production enhancement techniques being used without extensive study as to their compounded and combined effects over the last few decades. Until the far ranging science is separated from the politics and money of the Monsantos, Du Ponts, ADM, and Con Agras of the world, this situation will probably get worse before it gets better.

DanielH564993 wrote:
Pardon the average gentile sensabilities.... But did you ever wonder if half (or better) of all the folks crying food alergies are just full of, well, themselves? It's popular to be "special", but the stats don't support the crowds. If you have such sensativities, why is it always up to everyone else to make accommodations? Try phoning ahead and expressing your needs... Well, that pretty well defeats the whole "I'm special" thing, and IMHO ferets out the bulk of the Alergy Faker Dogs.

Daniel,

You have got to be joking - you really need to ask why restaurants should make accommodations for persons with allergies? Having an allergic reaction is not to taken lightly or passed-off as a person just wanting to be special. A reaction could have life threatening consequences.


Robert,

Your question, "[w]hy would you assume that the restaurant would ignore your request," is rather bizarre. It's not an assumption. Restaurants do make mistakes and sometimes requests are either ignored, misunderstood, or forgotten. One event comes to mind where the server did not communicate a shellfish allergy to the kitchen and took it upon herself to determine which dish contained shellfish. She brought several dishes containing some form of shrimp, lobster, and conch....all of which she did not know were shellfish!!

I have mixed opinions about this post --- But IMHO the bottom line is that it's my money and I don't care who the chef is or was or will be, there are certain foods that I do NOT eat. Keep your beets, cauliflower, brussel sprouts and other oddities off my plate and off my palate, especially at a $1500 a plate dinner at Per Se....
In regards to food fakers, life's too short to be a faker or a poser and just stand up for what you want. Don't like something, make sure it's not on your plate. 
STOP making life for those that are truely affected by allergies any harder than it already is!!!

TonyG, we all display idiocyntric behavior about what we eat to varying degrees (allergies aside, since this is a medical issue and needs to be addressed) and you offer a good example: "beets, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts...oddities?" Not to me. I enjoy these food items...
Most restaurants will try to accommodate special requests if given enough notice, however you as a diner should not demand it if the kitchen in question cannot comply...just simply choose another dish or go to another restaurant that offers a menu that works for you.
As to the special dinner at Per Se, it was within their rights to create the ground rules for the meal....A little rational thinking here, please. Courtesy works on both sides of the hospitality equation.

TonyG23 wrote:
But IMHO the bottom line is that it's my money and I don't care who the chef is or was or will be, there are certain foods that I do NOT eat. Keep your beets, cauliflower, brussel sprouts and other oddities off my plate and off my palate, especially at a $1500 a plate dinner at Per Se....

 
Tony ...

Thinking that your money entitles you to disrespect the chef, or anyone who is trying to serve your needs is a very poor attitude. This arrogance is what earned us the label of “Ugly American” many years ago. Your wallet is neither a crutch nor a cudgel. 

Of course requesting that your food allergies be taken into consideration in the preparation of your meal is a necessary and vital request. But, demanding to create a dish that is nothing like one presented on the menu is overly presumptuous. When done with the, “It’s my money” attitude, it becomes that much more unacceptable. There is a middle ground whereby each party attains the respect that they deserve, while having an equal input in the final product. That can be accomplished when both parties set aside their egos.

You are completely mistaken if you think that you can make any such demand at the Keller / Achatz $1500 dinner at Per Se. This is a once in a lifetime event where two “artists” will present the finest meal they can conceive and execute. In this case, the chef’s are the artists and the diners are the canvas. Nowhere in history has a canvas told an artist which brush to use, what colors to paint with, or how broad a stroke to make.

If you were considering attending this event, it would have behooved you to look at the menu before making your reservation.

Here is the menu as presented on the evening of the event .........

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/11/11/dining/Mentor_Protege_Dinner.pdf

Kenard ... wrote:
[You are completely mistaken if you think that you can make any such demand at the Keller / Achatz $1500 dinner at Per Se. This is a once in a lifetime event where two “artists” will present the finest meal they can conceive and execute. In this case, the chef’s are the artists and the diners are the canvas. Nowhere in history has a canvas told an artist which brush to use, what colors to paint with, or how broad a stroke to make.
[/i]
 
Maybe an artist has not been told to paint with a certain brush or with a certain colour pallette, but you can be damn sure that throughout history artists were told by patrons what subjects they were willing to pay for an artistic represntation of (see the Medicis in Renaissance Italy for but one example), size of the art, and sometimes even have the chance to veto the treatment of the subject in sketch form. In the dining experience, the customer is the artistic patron to the chef's artistry, without it, the chef may as well be MickeyD's fry guy or a brick layer if he/she does not want to please those willing to pay for the product. To say that Keller et. al. are above the market forces that make their livelihood possible is either arrogant or silly since their "art" is a consummable product that gets passed into a toilet within 24 hours of the experience. If the chef does not service the customer's needs when it comes to allergies or dislikes, the chef has lost a customer forever at the very least.